The title is wierd cause it relates to today's language discussion. Yay language discussions! Anybody? *cricket sound* *cough*
Just when I thought I had "～てもらった" pegged as "I had him ～for me", I go and run into a new example to confuse me.
Today, a teacher said, after he looked up and realized I had written an example sentence, "Mr. Bは前に黒板で文を書いてもらった."
I thought to myself, Wait, you didn't have me write that for you, I did it of my own volition; independantly.
After some discussion, I think I may extend the interpretation of "～てもらった" to "He did something (～) that I/we needed/required (whether we requested that thing or not is irrelevant)."
Thoughts? 君の答えを書いてもらおうと思う。
Interesting.
ReplyDeleteRegardless somebody did something for whomever, the person who uses ～てもらった can expresse some gratitude in it.
thank you for もらったing your thoughts.
ReplyDeleteI would say Mayumi あげた her thoughts, and you もらった。I think it's maybe simpler than you make it out to be. もらう just means to receive, but it's used for lots of things, particularly favors. してもらう means to receive the favor of ___. For example, まゆみは「もらった」という意味が教えてもらった。Or does that mean Mayumi was the one receiving? There's the rub, I'm not sure. Directionality can be difficult for me to understand, which is why I often use くれる which is more likely to imply I am the one receiving whatever. I also often use it when thanking people not in my in-group, like 昨日、家まで送ってまらって、ありがとうございました。I think もらう has gotten loose with directionality, but I'm pretty sure the teacher was just saying, "Look. Mr. B wrote an example sentence for us."
ReplyDeleteThat second sentence should read:
ReplyDelete昨日、家までおくってもらって、ありがとうございました。
Still not good at typing in J.
but even by the strange weird language blend going on in the comments, I don't believe I can say "thanks for あげたing your thoughts"
ReplyDeleteI just covered this in my own studies. San-kyuu prep!
ReplyDeleteもらう：receive
くれる: give
あげる: give
The nuances depend on two things: Whether the subject is the actor or the receiver, and the relative social positions of actor and receiver.
If 私am the subject, and Clayさん is translating something for me:
私はClayさんに何かをっ訳してもらいます。
The same sentence, but Clay is the subject.
Clayさんは私に何かを訳してくれます。
Now, if Clay and I were not (presumably) social equals, if Clay were Clay校長先生、that last sentence would use あげる instead of くれる。
And if I were translating something for 校長先生、it would be: 私は校長先生にさしあげます。
And for bonus learnings (and to help me get it straight in my own mind), there are even more fun 敬語changes to be made.
When talking about giving or receiving to or from someone of higher status:
もらう：receive：いただく
くれる：give：くださる
あげる：give：さしあげる
I also have the sense that you can't say くれる unless you are one of the actors or receivers. True, I have this sense because there are no examples in my text book where it happens, and that doesn't mean it never does... but I still feel safer using あげる if I'm talking about two non-me people who are giving stuff.
Pleeease correct me where I'm wrong.
Jeff
PS: Thanks for the invite, Clay
PPS: In order to post this, I have to type in confirmation that I see the following letters on my screen:
fahxup. Best phonetics ever.