May 15, 2008

Just like that, Japanese

So apparently I can speak Japanese this week. Quite a few people have commented on this. It's odd though, because I haven't had any sub-piphanies lately where I go, things have been going well in the language department. Jolly good (I think with the voice of an English Police inspector). I think all my learning is mostly established at this stage and the main things I am missing are vocabulary and diction.
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Speaking of which, なり is an odd grammar item. It's supposed to go on the ends of dictionary verbs to mean "as soon as x happened, y did too". But one can't say "飛行機に降りるなり、熊を見た。" I don't know why, I was just told it's not used that way. But "(北海道に)着くなり、熊を見た。" is okay. Why?
And なり... that's an odd one outside of this construction. Near as I can tell, it is a form of である, and ties further into the relationship between な and だ that I have been exploring lately. ずる verbs have also been keeping me up at night, but that is neither here nor there.
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I've got the Friday crazies. These are when I get gradually sleep-deprived as the week goes on and go a little crazy by Friday. Usually this manifests as doodling on the board during downtime and trying to make jokes in Japanese, mostly pun based. Today, I put the crazy energy into a really good worksheet. I make awesome worksheets; that is my reason for being apparently. I am supposed to be memorizing the kanji from my new book for school this summer, but the energy doesn't like to be focused that way. Blog away then. Jolly good.
Friday energy is problematic on days like today. Days we call Thursdays.
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I threatened to relay news of my adventures with "aくん". Let me just say, I have become increasingly obsessed with conveying the most basic English grammar (the kind both native speakers and non-natives don't get for opposed reasons centering on familiarity) during my tenure here--it's kind of a shame that there is a limit to the JET experience, because we get really good about thinking about how to talk about English after a while and then they bring in a new person the next year and they're like, "what is a past participle?"-- So yeah, a-kun is a cute little mnemonic I came up with to use in class. I explain the rule, "aくんは名詞が好きだ。めいしって何だ?..." And so on. Then I bring in anくん。"anくんは 'a,i,u,e,o' の音が好きだ。" But it is one thing to remember a grammar rule, and quite another to remember to use it, as my chagrined teaching ears will tell you. Which begs the question, when ears tell things, do they grow little beady eyes (I suppose eyes aren't necessary but let's not have the poor ears be blind) and mouths, or possibly use the orifice they already have for projection? A mystery for the ages... somehow I feel like a joke about listening and asking are the same word in Japanese would be appropriate here, but I am very serious and cannot be bothered with such a trivial matter. Obvs.
Take that and treasure it, old bean.

12 comments:

  1. I love your a-kun and an-kun thing. It's so cute.

    And, I can't tell you the number of pieces of writing that I've corrected in which there have been phrases or expressions that were grammatically correct, but that 'we just don't say in English'. It's definitely not a phenomenon confined to Japanese...although I would add that Japanese seems to have a lot more 'standard phrases' that you hear everyone say at least ten times a day so that may be why there seem to be more things that you just don't say in Japanese.

    Kathy

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  2. thanks, Kathy, where are you located?

    I feel like it seems that if it is grammatically correct, we can say it in English, usually. But what is correct is very subtle. When to use "much" versus "a lot" for instance. The hyperlinked article explores a bit of why Japanese works differently.

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  3. maybe "飛行機が.." "飛行機を..",hummmm... It sounds a bit strange but I wonder if it's not due to the context. For example if 車を降りるなり or 車が着くなり, then it sounds OK. But still, I'd rather say, kuma ga deta! The reason, hummm, hard to say. Maybe, nari implies something quick and "deta" conveys more of that sense because it means something like popping up like "Obake ga detta", "Hentai ga detta".

    This なり, I didn't have any clue to etymologically. So I looked into a dico, according to which this comes from なり(meishi) meaning (形・態), which in turn comes from なるbecoming(成)(doushi). This is of different origin to the next なり.

    なり in the meaning of である is a jyodoushi of old japanese, stemming from に(jyoshi) + あり(doushi).
    である comes from ancient に(jyoshi) + て(jyoshi) + あり; the meanings of に and て are about the same as now. This changed through である to だ.

    What are ずる verbs ?

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  4. Good stuff!

    a zuru verb would be on like 存ずる, which are often replaced by じる forms these days. 存じる in this case.

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  5. I'm not sure because I don't have lots of examples but it seems related to words of ONE kanji(onyomi)+ す(doushi)(ancient する). It seems that in this construction, す turns into
    ず(always meaning する) because of "onbin"(how do you say it in english, transformation for the ease of pronunciation). Like 生(shou)ず(ずるtoday's form)

    す or ず conjugates in old form: せ(mizen-kei),し(renyou-), す(shuushi-), する(rentai-), すれ(izen-)(in today's japanese, called katei-), せよ(meirei-).

    Today's form of す or する changes like し,し,する,する,すれ,せよ(or しろ? not sure) in the same order of -kei above.
    So, 生じ-nai, 生じ+masu, 生ずる, 生ずる+toki(koto, whatever noun-like),
    生ずれ+ba, 生ぜよ.

    What I can't explain is from Shuushikei on we can also say
    生じる, 生じる+toki(koto, whatever noun-like),
    生じれ+ba, 生じよ.

    By contrast, する doesn't have these variants. Strange, another example of "onbin"?

    Also in the previous comment on bear appearance, on second thought, I'm not sure at all. Honest answer, I don't know.

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  6. onbin is euphonic change, or more simply, a change into a more agreeable and easy to say sound

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  7. I was looking around to see if に降りる is strange, but it looks fairly common, and I found this by chance
    電車に降りるなり「おなかすいた」連発の彼は、半チャンセットを完食

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  8. In the bear story, I got confused and I didn't know if it seemed a bit strange due to the context being unrealistic or something else.

    Maybe, the problem is in "mita". While "nari" implies swift transition of events, mita in those
    contexts doesn't indicate enough speed. In them, "mita" is used for hitting on but "miru" in Japanese desn't sound accidental enough.
    For example, "ie ni kaeru nari, tv wo mita" is perfectly ok because here mita isn't an accidental event, not so much at least.

    The following is strange
    電車wo降りるなり, hentai wo mita. Here what happened is the pervert appeared kind of by surprise. You should day, "ni atta" This way indicates enough factors of accident.

    In the bear example above, the situation was actually like this.
    So you should say, "kuma ni atta" but it's a bit awkward because we don't say so much "doubutsu(animal) ni au".

    The following are correct.
    電車wo降りるなり, sora(sky) wo mita,
    tokei(clock, watch) wo mita
    Here, if not so intentional, motion was made by you at your will. Neither sora or tokei didn't come to you from their side.

    Voila.

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  9. Thank you, I will digest this. What's your story Naoki? You are super good at English!

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  10. thanks, clay, i live in germany after spending 10 y in france and 4 y in uk. lots of time to practice languages and think them over.

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  11. Very cool!
    BTW, this reminds me of a haiku I wrote for the 文化祭:

    山の中
    不思議な出会い
    サスカッチ

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  12. Forgive me, test post to try out the new image.

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